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2017-12-07 at 13:51 #29602   (81)
(2017-12-07 at 11:22)thvv wrote:  
(2017-12-06 at 18:29)I wrote:  The YouTube TV deal sounded interesting... a lot of channels for $35/mo. I tried it out and so far, I am disappointed.
I dug deep into the help and discovered that it is a DRM problem, because Macs and Linux machines with external monitors are limited to 480p. None of the advertising explains this limitation. I canceled.
Is your Mac Mini connected to your TV using DVI, HDMI or DisplayPort? If not, perhaps it is not all external monitors that are excluded from YouTube TV in HD, but only setups that are not using an HDCP-compliant setup.

    High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection


Todd Bangerter Show this Post
2017-12-07 at 15:32 #29624   (82)
Todd Bangerter
Apple doesn't provide third-party access to HDCP for external (non-built-in) displays on macOS, so everything outside of the iTunes eco-system is limited to SD, if HDCP is being enforced (which it always is with these commercial services).

  Oops! You can't play most protected digital video on an external Mac monitor


2017-12-07 at 16:09 #29629   (83)
(2017-12-07 at 15:32)Todd Bangerter wrote:  Apple doesn't provide third-party access to HDCP for external (non-built-in) displays on macOS...
Wow, I was not aware of that limitation. Thanks for the article link. I've saved it for future reference.


2017-12-07 at 16:50 #29635   (84)
(2017-12-06 at 23:49)lurker wrote:  I am really surprised that Amazon Prime video showed up on the Apple TV 3.
I saw that. It's a shame Apple won't give us an app for Hoopla, which offers free content courtesy of my local public library. Streaming movies to my ATV3 from the Hoopla iOS app isn't awful, but there's a Hoopla app for ATV4, Roku, Fire TV, etc., so why not for ATV3? (I have no use for an ATV4 because it lacks an optical-out to my DAC.)


2017-12-07 at 17:13 #29637   (85)
(2017-12-06 at 23:49)lurker wrote:  I am really surprised that Amazon Prime video showed up on the Apple TV 3.
When I talked to Amazon Support on another issue, I asked about Prime coming to iTunes. The reply was by the end of the year. So now I can watch Prime via Apple TV 3, Bonus!


2017-12-07 at 17:54 #29641   (86)
Curious if anyone has ran into having "purchased" a TV series on the iTunes Store and had the licensing change (be removed because of Apple negotiations with the studio) and if that means you're out of luck = no more access to the content?


arthur thompson Show this Post
2017-12-07 at 19:19 #29644   (87)
arthur thompson
Netflix has begun crashing randomly after updating to tvOS 11.2, on my Apple TV 4K, usually after pausing video anywhere from a few minutes to one-half hour. After relaunching, Netflix resumes video at the point of the crash. This has happened 4-5 times in the past two days.


2017-12-08 at 09:47 #29673   (88)
jimsz
(2017-12-07 at 17:54)sldghamr wrote:  Curious if anyone has ran into having "purchased" a TV series on the iTunes Store and had the licensing change (be removed because of Apple negotiations with the studio) and if that means you're out of luck = no more access to the content?
Yes. A number of years ago I purchased a season of a TV series for the kids. We streamed it instead of downloading, and one day it was no longer available. Apple said they no longer had the rights to stream it and gave me credit for 3 episode downloads (I purchased 13 episodes).

Since then anything I purchase I make sure to download, so we will always have a local copy.


2017-12-08 at 11:56 #29679   (89)
It's a shame Apple won't give us an app for Hoopla, which offers free content courtesy of my local public library.
Actually, there is a Hoopla app for Apple TV. I found it two or three ago. It makes it a bit easier than streaming from the iOS app via AirPlay.


2017-12-08 at 12:27 #29683   (90)
(2017-12-08 at 11:56)David Vereschagin wrote:  Actually, there is a Hoopla app for Apple TV.
For Apple TV 4, yes. Not for my Apple TV 3, unless it's named something other than "Hoopla." Sorry, I thought I made that clear.


2017-12-08 at 18:14 #29710   (91)
(2017-12-07 at 13:51)Scott Austin wrote:  
(2017-12-07 at 11:22)thvv wrote:  I dug deep into the help and discovered that it is a DRM problem, because Macs and Linux machines with external monitors are limited to 480p. None of the advertising explains this limitation. I canceled.
Is your Mac Mini connected to your TV using DVI, HDMI or DisplayPort? If not, perhaps it is not all external monitors that are excluded from YouTube TV in HD, but only setups that are not using an HDCP-compliant setup.
    High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection
My TV is connected to the Mini using HDMI. It doesn't work right, and they didn't respond to me. My DVD player has "apps", too, and I can watch Netflix in HD that way instead of using Chrome on the Mini... but there is no YouTubeTV app for my player. Chromecast might work... or not. I am tired of playing Adventure with this; I hope someone else can debug it and get it working.


2017-12-09 at 19:42 #29751   (92)
n6ac
(2017-11-09 at 22:51)n6ac wrote:  We have been using EyeTV, version 2.5.3 application and a Miglia HDTV tuner on our Mac Mini for years.
On the 2012 Mini with Sierra, it seems the issue started only a few weeks back, with a security update, now it still captures off-air recordings but does not playback or allow the remote to control playback.
Thanks for the various replies. I am happy to report that, in the interval, there have been further security updates on Sierra – maybe they resolved something, or maybe it was my restoring of the QuickTime related-Library/Internet Plug-Ins/ items. Also, had to set the app's Sound preference for output to the (HDMI-connected) television. Seems now to be working properly in 10.12.6 as it does in 10.11.6


RobMendelsohn Show this Post
2017-12-10 at 22:11 #29780   (93)
RobMendelsohn
(2017-12-07 at 16:50)Lanny Chambers wrote:  It's a shame Apple won't give us an app for Hoopla, which offers free content courtesy of my local public library. Streaming movies to my ATV3 from the Hoopla iOS app isn't awful, but there's a Hoopla app for ATV4, Roku, Fire TV, etc., so why not for ATV3? (I have no use for an ATV4 because it lacks an optical-out to my DAC.)
There is an app for Kanopy which hooks into many local libraries. It works fairly well, but if you use Airplay via your iPad to play the movies, it will correct for any aspect ratio issues and allow the captions to show. In the last few days we’ve seen: Rules of the Game, Knife in the Water, and the Seven Samurai. Fantastic service, even in these early days of its availability.


2017-12-11 at 00:02 #29782   (94)
Guest
(2017-12-10 at 22:11)RobMendelsohn wrote:  There is an app for Kanopy which hooks into many local libraries.
I live in a fairly large county with lots of online library services available to us. We have Hoopla. We do not have Kanopy.


2017-12-11 at 00:53 #29785   (95)
(2017-12-10 at 22:11)RobMendelsohn wrote:  There is an app for Kanopy which hooks into many local libraries.
I wasn't whining about Hoopla on my iPad working poorly. It works fine. I was whining that there's no native Hoopla app on my Apple TV 3. No Kanopy app for it, either, of course. I guess the ATV3 is pretty much orphaned now, despite its advantages over the current model.


2017-12-14 at 04:41 #30053   (96)
Scot
I've been stuck for months at TvOS 10.2.2 on an AppleTV 4. Today I heard about a new 11.x version, and tried once more to update. Got the same "The update was not successful" message as all the other times, so I tried restarting, then resetting, which wiped out all my configuration settings. Each time the ATV downloads the update, and each time it fails. Now after reading the posts here, I'm wondering if I should just leave it at 10.2.2, as Plex and Homekit seem to work just fine. But with the security updates to Homekit, I'd really like to get onto the current release. Is anyone else having the same problem, and perhaps found a fix?


2017-12-15 at 12:47 #30125   (97)
Reuters wrote:Amazon to start selling Apple TV, Google Chromecast
Amazon.com Inc. will start selling Google Chromecast and Apple TV, which compete against its Fire TV, on its online store, an Amazon spokeswoman told Reuters on Thursday. The e-commerce giant had removed the video-streaming devices from its website in 2015.


2017-12-15 at 14:41 #30133   (98)
(2017-12-14 at 04:41)Scot wrote:  I've been stuck for months at TvOS 10.2.2 on an AppleTV 4. Today I heard about a new 11.x version, and tried once more to update. Got the same "The update was not successful" message as all the other times, so I tried restarting, then resetting, which wiped out all my configuration settings. Each time the ATV downloads the update, and each time it fails. Now after reading the posts here, I'm wondering if I should just leave it at 10.2.2, as Plex and Homekit seem to work just fine. But with the security updates to Homekit, I'd really like to get onto the current release. Is anyone else having the same problem, and perhaps found a fix?
When you "Reset and Update" (Restore your Apple TV to its factory settings), you end up with 10.2.2?


2017-12-17 at 03:22 #30203   (99)
Guest
(2017-12-15 at 14:41)Steven MacDonald wrote:  When you "Reset and Update" (Restore your Apple TV to its factory settings), you end up with 10.2.2?
When I tried 'Reset and Update', it gave me the same "The update was not successful" error message.

I have a USB-C cable on order so I can try the 'Reset and Update' command using iTunes on a MacBook Pro. If that doesn't work, looks like I'll be off to an Apple Store. Bummer, 'cause the closest one is about a hundred miles away...


2017-12-18 at 10:26 #30231   (100)
Scot
(2017-12-14 at 04:41)Scot wrote:  ... Got the same "The update was not successful" message as all the other times, so I tried restarting, then resetting, which wiped out all my configuration settings. ... Is anyone else having the same problem, and perhaps found a fix?
Yesterday the USB-C cable I ordered showed up from Amazon. Plugged one end into the MacBook Pro, the other end into the Apple TV 4, and powered up the Apple TV with its cord. After a short delay, iTunes on the MacBook Pro gave me the option to restore the Apple TV. This time it worked.

Apple has a funny idea of what "restore" means - in their minds, the device is set back to factory original settings. Makes sense, since at this time there doesn't appear to be any way to back up the Apple TV using iTunes. That means using the remote to peck all the preferences back in, but at least the Apple TV was able to learn the network settings from an iPad I had handy. Or at least it was supposed to; I had to go in and manually enter the WiFi password for some reason. With that done, I was able to download the Plex, YouTube, and Netflix apps from the Apple Store. Sure glad I didn't have any movies stored on the Apple TV; it would have taken forever to download those from the network (satellite internet sux).


2017-12-18 at 20:11 #30275   (101)
(2017-12-18 at 10:26)Scot wrote:  Apple has a funny idea of what "restore" means - in their minds, the device is set back to factory original settings. Makes sense, since at this time there doesn't appear to be any way to back up the Apple TV using iTunes. That means using the remote to peck all the preferences back in, but at least the Apple TV was able to learn the network settings from an iPad I had handy. Or at least it was supposed to; I had to go in and manually enter the WiFi password for some reason.
I can highly recommend Apple's "Apple TV Remote" app. It runs on your iOS device and, most of the time, you can use the iPhone or iPad keyboard instead of the horrible "pecker" on the remote. It also simulates the remote's trackpad and buttons, so you don't have to switch back and forth.


2017-12-18 at 22:04 #30277   (102)
(2017-12-18 at 20:11)Gene_L wrote:  I can highly recommend Apple's "Apple TV Remote" app. It runs on your iOS device and, most of the time, you can use the iPhone or iPad keyboard instead of the horrible "pecker" on the remote. It also simulates the remote's trackpad and buttons, so you don't have to switch back and forth.
Agreed, though Remote is also used to instruct iTunes on a Mac to stream music, photos, and video to the TV. One can also pair a Bluetooth keyboard, which one might have lying around; at least one can with an Apple TV 3.


2017-12-19 at 06:29 #30293   (103)
(2017-12-18 at 22:04)Lanny Chambers wrote:  One can also pair a Bluetooth keyboard, which one might have lying around; at least one can with an Apple TV 3.
You can pair a Bluetooth keyboard to an Apple TV 4. You can also use an infra-red remote if it's programmable with the codes for the Apple TV (or the white remote that came with older Macs), then you get the normal up-down-left-right keys, which are easier to use than the touchpad.


2017-12-19 at 12:08 #30308   (104)
(2017-12-18 at 20:11)Gene_L wrote:  I can highly recommend Apple's "Apple TV Remote" app. It runs on your iOS device and, most of the time, you can use the iPhone or iPad keyboard instead of the horrible "pecker" on the remote. It also simulates the remote's trackpad and buttons, so you don't have to switch back and forth.
I use the Hulu and PBS apps on my Apple TV (pre-4K version). I absolutely hate trying to scroll through a movie or TV show using the ATV remote; it's nearly impossible to get where I want to go because the scrolling seems hypersensitive and I usually go too far in either direction. After logging out and back into Home Sharing on the ATV (why did I need this hassle?), I was able to connect the Remote app to the ATV, in the hopes of finding it easier to scroll (and maybe other benefits, too!). I found that Remote has the opposite problem (at least for me). Scrolling is very slow. So for small adjustments the Remote app is the way to go; to move to the middle of a movie, the ATV remote is better. (sigh)

I have found that entering passwords (letter by letter) and search terms using the hardware remote's microphone button is a zillion times easier than trying to peck them on the screen. It sounds funny to anyone else in the room, though!

Also, has anyone else noticed that the ATV remote really likes to escape from your hand, slip off your lap, and hide deep down between the side of the EZ chair and the seat cushion?


2017-12-19 at 13:30 #30321   (105)
(2017-12-19 at 12:08)jschaffe wrote:  Also, has anyone else noticed that the ATV remote really likes to escape from your hand, slip off your lap, and hide deep down between the side of the EZ chair and the seat cushion?
Hah! The ATV3 remote is even smaller, slipperier, and more likely to make a run for the border; I think it might sprout legs when not under immediate observation.  ;)

BTW, for me the fastest way to jump through a video is to press the remote's down arrow to display jump points on the timeline, then skip a chunk of time with each left or right arrow. Still, response for streaming video is often laggy, so patience is required. Another strategy is to open the video in its corresponding iOS app (Netflix, YouTube, PBS, etc.), where it's far easier to search, drag the play head, then in ATV open the video and choose Resume.

The hoops we jump through because the manufacturer has morphed into a my-phone-is-thinner-than-your-phone company and has forgotten that actual humans are trying to use this stuff. I expect Apple's motto has changed from "Think Different" to "My Way or the Highway."


2017-12-19 at 17:34 #30347   (106)
Just a quick note after I purchased an Apple 4K TV. The first time I tried to watch something in 4K, it said there is a problem. I called Apple and got the best tech who suggested the Belkin High Speed HDMI cable. Long story short, everything is working now. The cable is on sale at Apple for just about $30. I recommend them. Cables matter, especially with 4K from the Apple 4K TV.


2017-12-19 at 18:17 #30353   (107)
(2017-12-19 at 17:34)David Rubright wrote:  ... The cable is on sale at Apple for just about $30. I recommend them. Cables matter, especially with 4K from the Apple 4K TV.
Or save yourself some money and get something like this for a third of Apple's price:

HDMI Cable Ultra High Speed 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 Cable Supports Fire TV, Apple TV, Ethernet, Audio Return, Video 4K UHD 2160p...


2017-12-20 at 00:02 #30368   (108)
(2017-12-19 at 17:34)David Rubright wrote:  Just a quick note after I purchased an Apple 4K TV. The first time I tried to watch something in 4K, it said there is a problem. I called Apple and got the best tech who suggested the Belkin High Speed HDMI cable. Long story short, everything is working now. The cable is on sale at Apple for just about $30. I recommend them. Cables matter, especially with 4K from the Apple 4K TV.
Yes, cables matter, but you don't need to spend a lot of money. Just make sure you get the kind you need.

These days, there are four different kinds of HDMI cables:
  • Standard - up to 74.5MHz / 3.96Gbps - HDMI 1.0-1.2 features, including 1080i and 720p
  • High Speed - up to 340MHz / 8.16Gbps - HDMI 1.0-1.4 features, including 1080p, 4K at 30Hz, 3D and deep color
  • Premium High Speed - up to 600MHz / 14.4Gbps - HDMI 1.0-2.0 features, including 4K at 60Hz and HDR
  • Ultra High Speed - up to 1.2GHz / 42.6Gbps - all HDMI features (1.0-2.1), including 4K, 5K, 8K and 10K at 120Hz
Standard, high speed and premium high speed are all available with or without Ethernet. Ultra high speed always includes Ethernet. There is also an automotive version of standard HDMI with special connectors designed to protect against weather and vibration.

Any cable certified for a particular frequency will be able to support all of the HDMI features designed to work at or below that frequency. Trying to drive a signal that requires more bandwidth than a cable is certified for may not produce a stable image (or any image at all).

For an Apple TV-4K, the maximum resolution (according to the spec sheet) is 2160p at 60Hz. That resolution uses 12.54 Gbps, which is beyond the spec for a high speed cable. A premium high speed cable should be used for this, although you might be able to get away with a short high speed cable that has heavy-gauge conductors (since that would likely have the bandwidth capacity even without certification), or failing that, you might have to view 4K video at 30Hz (6.18Gbps) with a high speed cable. (Which might not actually be a problem if your TV only supports 4K at 30Hz).


2017-12-21 at 14:51 #30497   (109)
(2017-12-19 at 17:34)David Rubright wrote:  Just a quick note after I purchased an Apple 4K TV. The first time I tried to watch something in 4K, it said there is a problem. I called Apple and got the best tech who suggested the Belkin High Speed HDMI cable. Long story short, everything is working now. The cable is on sale at Apple for just about $30. I recommend them. Cables matter, especially with 4K from the Apple 4K TV.
The Monoprice cables work fine. I am using an 6' Ultra Slim Series High Speed HDMI Cable without any issues. It costs $6.59 and is super flexible. The cable game is and always will be a scam, as the markup is tremendous. I bought the Ultra Slim ones because I was tired of fighting Monoprice's thicker cables. There may be some older HDMI cables that do not meet the current specification, and those might not work since they were created prior to the latest specification. These cables also work with my Dish Network 4K Joey and with my Sony 4K player.


2017-12-21 at 14:56 #30498   (110)
(2017-03-13 at 10:43)David Charlap wrote:  I just ran across this article today:
   Tips: How to take screenshots from a fourth generation Apple TV...
I read an article about how to do this. It referenced an article from the Apple Developer website explaining how to do it. The author was amazed Apple described how to do it, it worked, and they have not shut it down. It was several months ago and possibly longer that I saw it. Interesting, but too much of a hassle for me.


2017-12-21 at 18:34 #30525   (111)
(2017-12-21 at 14:56)Surf123 wrote:  
(2017-03-13 at 10:43)David Charlap wrote:  I just ran across this article today:
   Tips: How to take screenshots from a fourth generation Apple TV...
I read an article about how to do this. It referenced an article from the Apple Developer website explaining how to do it. The author was amazed Apple described how to do it, it worked, and they have not shut it down. It was several months ago and possibly longer that I saw it. Interesting, but too much of a hassle for me.
After starting to work a bit on iOS development (we're developing an in-house app for an iPad), I've come to learn that this is actually a standard iOS developer technique.

When we need to present our work-so-far to managers and other important people, we use Xcode to display the iPad's screen on the Mac's screen. We can then project that screen (for local presentations) or share it over WebEx (for remote presentations).

Additionally, note that Apple wants screen shots as a part of your product description whenever you send an app to the App Store. You therefore need a way to create them.

Finally, it is far easier to debug problems (especially complex UI issues) if you can display the device's content on your Mac's screen. If you have to look away to look at the iPhone/iPod/iPad/Watch/TV screen, it quickly becomes inconvenient and uncomfortable and will distract you from the problem you are trying to fix.


2017-12-21 at 18:56 #30526   (112)
(2017-12-21 at 14:51)Surf123 wrote:  The Monoprice cables work fine. I am using an 6' Ultra Slim Series High Speed HDMI Cable without any issues. It costs $6.59 and is super flexible. ... There may be some older HDMI cables that do not meet the current specification, and those might not work since they were created prior to the latest specification.
It all comes down to certification and bandwidth. Any certified high speed cable will work for any HDMI feature/resolution that requires a high speed cable. Any certified premium high speed cable will work for any HDMI feature that requires the higher bandwidth of premium high speed. Currently 4K at 60Hz and HDR are the only mainstream features that requires this.

If your device (or TV) only supports 4K at 30Hz, then a high speed cable will support the bandwidth you require. If they support 4K at 60Hz and you don't have a premium high speed cable, then you have no way to be sure (without actually trying it) that the cable will deliver the bandwidth you require.

It's not a matter of the "latest" specifications. All four speeds are part of the latest specification (HDMI 2.1). It's a matter of getting a cable built for the speed you require, and has the certification to prove it, so you know it works before you hook up everything.


2017-12-22 at 13:28 #30583   (113)
Doug
I have been contemplating upgrading from my Apple TV 3 to the new version. However, most of my equipment is still older - it is using the HDMI 1.4 standard. I was thinking the new Apple TV needs to have HDMI 2.0. So, I guess my question is, if I buy the latest Apple TV 5 will it work with my older equipment (Yamaha Receiver, LG TV, etc.)


2017-12-22 at 16:03 #30597   (114)
(2017-12-22 at 13:28)Doug wrote:  I have been contemplating upgrading from my Apple TV 3 to the new version. However, most of my equipment is still older - it is using the HDMI 1.4 standard. I was thinking the new Apple TV needs to have HDMI 2.0. So, I guess my question is, if I buy the latest Apple TV 5 will it work with my older equipment (Yamaha Receiver, LG TV, etc.)
Assuming the Apple TV-4K properly complies with the HDMI 2.0 spec, it should negotiate capabilities with whatever is on the other end of the cable (receiver, TV, etc.) and only let you use resolutions/features both support. This is a part of HDMI's backward-compatibility specifications.

When attaching your equipment, I would expect the ATV factory-default configuration to negotiate capabilities and display something both can support (e.g. 1080p or 4K at 30Hz) if your equipment won't support more than that. You may or may not have the ability to manually configure something beyond the auto-negotiated resolutions (which would probably not work unless the negotiation failed to report the full set of capabilities).

This has been my experience with other HDMI equipment (a PlayStation 3, a Verizon FiOS TV receiver, and a Dish Network Hopper DVR). It is possible that Apple's implementation is broken so badly that it can't work without a 4K/60Hz display, but that would truly surprise me.


2017-12-22 at 16:17 #30599   (115)
After re-reading my recent posts:
(2017-12-20 at 00:02)David Charlap wrote:  For an Apple TV-4K, the maximum resolution (according to the spec sheet) is 2160p at 60Hz. That resolution uses 12.54 Gbps, which is beyond the spec for a high speed cable. A premium high speed cable should be used for this...
(2017-12-21 at 18:56)David Charlap wrote:  If your device (or TV) only supports 4K at 30Hz, then a high speed cable will support the bandwidth you require. If they support 4K at 60Hz and you don't have a premium high speed cable, then you have no way to be sure...
It just occurred to me another reason why some people are reporting success using an Apple TV-4K with a high speed cable, even though the high speed spec doesn't have enough bandwidth for 4K at 60Hz. I speculated that it is likely that the cables are actually able to pass 12.54Gbps, despite the lack of certification. Another possibility is that the actual signal might not be 60Hz, even though that is the Apple TV's maximum capability. Most movies are filmed at 24Hz - this is the frame rate for film that has been used universally (with very rare exceptions) since the dawn of commercial filmmaking and is still used today even for movies that are distributed in digital format.

Given the fact that Blu-Ray and HDMI both have specifications that support 24Hz frame rates, it is likely that movies distributed in digital format (from studios to Apple to an Apple TV) are also using a 24Hz frame rate. 4K video at 24Hz is part of the HDMI 1.4 spec and has no problem operating over a high speed cable.


2017-12-23 at 13:52 #30649   (116)
Doug
(2017-12-22 at 16:17)David Charlap wrote:  After re-reading my recent posts...
It just occurred to me another reason why some people are reporting success using an Apple TV-4K with a high speed cable, even though the high speed spec doesn't have enough bandwidth for 4K at 60Hz. I speculated that it is likely that the cables are actually able to pass 12.54Gbps, despite the lack of certification. Another possibility is that the actual signal might not be 60Hz, even though that is the Apple TV's maximum capability. Most movies are filmed at 24Hz - this is the frame rate for film that has been used universally (with very rare exceptions) since the dawn of commercial filmmaking and is still used today even for movies that are distributed in digital format.
   Given the fact that Blu-Ray and HDMI both have specifications that support 24Hz frame rates, it is likely that movies distributed in digital format (from studios to Apple to an Apple TV) are also using a 24Hz frame rate. 4K video at 24Hz is part of the HDMI 1.4 spec and has no problem operating over a high speed cable.
Thanks so much for the information. Sure do appreciate this forum.


Todd Bangerter Show this Post
2017-12-26 at 10:56 #30696   (117)
Todd Bangerter
(2017-12-22 at 16:17)David Charlap wrote:  It just occurred to me another reason why some people are reporting success using an Apple TV-4K with a high speed cable, even though the high speed spec doesn't have enough bandwidth for 4K at 60Hz.
Sorry, but this isn't accurate. High-Speed HDMI cables support the full 18 Gbps bandwidth of HDMI 2.0 connections. More info here.

Older High Speed HDMI cables (from the HDMI 1.4 days) or poorly constructed cables might not have been subjected to as rigorous testing and may be marginal in their performance, and thus, may not perform as they are supposed to (when you try to max out the bandwidth for 4K/60). For this reason, the HDMI Forum created the feel-good Premium label for a more "rigorously qualified" high speed cable. Warm fuzzies aside, the bandwidth and signals supported by High Speed and Premium High Speed cables are identical. If you have a somewhat recent, non-shoddy High Speed cable, that should be sufficient.


2017-12-26 at 16:06 #30717   (118)
(2017-12-26 at 10:56)Todd Bangerter wrote:  Sorry, but this isn't accurate. High-Speed HDMI cables support the full 18 Gbps bandwidth of HDMI 2.0 connections. More info here.
Thank you for the pointers. I did some more web searching and found that HDMI 2.0 is using some interesting tricks to work with existing high speed cables. When the TMDS character rate exceeds 340M characters per second (3.4Gbps), the TMDS clock rate changes from a 1:1 relationship (up to 340MHz) to 1/4 the character rate. So when operating at peak bandwidth (6Gbps or 600M characters/s per TMDS channel), it is using a TMDS clock of 150MHz, not 600MHz, which fits cleanly into the 340MHz bandwidth of a high speed cable.

The Wikipedia page I used as my source was wrong. The person who authored that section wrote 600MHz, not knowing about the 1/4 clock divider. I made appropriate changes to the article for HDMI 2.0, so that part should now be correct. I also updated the section on premium HDMI to point out that it is a new certification spec (more tests and mandates EMI shielding to protect from mobile phones and Wi-Fi) but doesn't define a new class of cable.

Similar changes probably need to be made for the Wikipedia text describing HDMI 2.1 (with a data rate of up to 12Gbps on each of four data channels), but since the 2.1 spec doesn't seem to be available without paying license fees, I don't know what the clock rate (and therefore cable frequency) is, so I left that section untouched (but posted a question in the Talk page so perhaps others can contribute that information).


2017-12-27 at 17:40 #30767   (119)
Scot
Speaking of remotes that work with the AppleTV, I use a Logitech Harmony Elite with the Apple TV 4 (not 4K), and it works just fine. There are times, though, when I have to drop back to the remote that came with the Apple TV to get something to work.

Now a pet peeve. Apple makes the Remote app (not Apple TV Remote) for both the iPhone and the iPad. Unfortunately, the two teams that work on these apps don't seem to be communicating, because key features seem to be missing from the iPad version. For example, there doesn't seem to be any way to adjust the volume on the iPad app, or to display the track that is currently playing. I also have a hard time getting the iPad 12.9" (2016) app to even communicate with a headless ATV3 I use in the garage to drive a stereo, using AirPlay to cast audio from a MacBook Pro in my office to the ATV3. Works flawlessly with the iPhone SE, but at times the ATV3 just doesn't show up in the iPad's device list.

Which brings up another point: There doesn't seem to be any step-by-step, owner's manual type documentation for any of the ATVs. Or at least, none that I've been able to find. Yet another example of something that should just work, but just doesn't, and now doesn't even have supporting documentation for engineers like me who would actually read it.


2017-12-27 at 23:13 #30774   (120)
Kev
(2017-12-27 at 17:40)Scot wrote:  ... Which brings up another point: There doesn't seem to be any step-by-step, owner's manual type documentation for any of the Apple TVs. Or at least, none that I've been able to find. Yet another example of something that should just work, but just doesn't, and now doesn't even have supporting documentation for engineers like me who would actually read it.
There’s an Apple TV User Guide by Apple Inc. free in the iBooks store.